exsilium | thirteenth rune; frost; video

thirteenth rune; frost; video

[Hello, friends. A cold-eyed elf with a fairly significant skin condition stares at the camera, his jaw set, his mouth a thin, inscrutable line.]

Talk of a council is all well and good, but we have another matter in front of us.

As many of you have pointed out, there is no formal system of law in place. At present, those of you who acted as peace officers have simply continued as you were in your own worlds. If you brought others to justice, if you spoke about justice -- you have continued to see this as your right.

[His eyes narrow, drawing his long eyebrows together.]

But it is not your right. Your laws are not universal. Your morality is not sacrosanct.

We must decide on appropriate conduct as a whole, with consideration given to perspectives outside of our own.

I propose that any code we settle on be simple and direct. For example:

1. Murder shall be abolished. In the case of murder, execution.

2. Theft shall be abolished. In the case of theft, the hand shall be cut off at the wrist. Repeat offenders shall lose both hands.

3. Conspiring with the United Earth shall be considered treason. In the case of treason, suspected or actual, execution.

4. Bodily autonomy shall be respected. Knowing efforts to mind control, telepathically invade, steal, or otherwise forcibly take spiritual or physical authority over another sentient being will constitute assault. In the case of this assault, execution.

And so forth. These are merely ideas, of course.

[His lower lip twitches, suggesting that he's perfectly aware of the extremes he's recommended. Suggesting that he's just trying to get your attention, to get you to think about how you would define your own terms. What constitutes murder? Theft? Conspiracy? Justice? He's only asking.

Maybe.]

[After several hours, the post is edited with a very carefully recorded text attachment.]

Proposed countermeasures to theft:
public humiliation
fines
time locked away

Proposed countermeasures to murder:
temporary exile
(where? to a safe place? to a random location in time?

General countermeasures
better jail system (?)
compassion (???)
mercy (???)
trials (how? who receives authority? who takes what position? what verdicts should result?)
jail time (general solution?)
punishment via the VR room (?)

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

Koltira...

[his voice is doing that two-TVs-in-different-rooms effect, since he's not actually all that far away, and moving closer. he doesn't know that.]

How can you eat without both hands?

I think we need to consider which hand to remove first as well as the alarmingly significant possibility of an offender without hands. It interests me that theft, which you do have to admit is the foundation of our current sanctuary, is the only offense you consider noncapital, but I'm a little alarmed that your code seems to completely overlook the possibility of mutiny. Perhaps as an expansion of the third or fourth clause?

[A teenage girl should not be sounding so matter-of-fact and cold about this but hey Koltira understands how hard being undead is right]

Hardly my concern, Martin.

[Smile. He looks ahead, expectant.]

[Well, truth be told ...]

Mutiny implies the subversion of an accepted authority. I do not believe, therefore, that a mutiny has taken place. What authority was subverted? The Initiative's? Was that a group we considered ourselves 'lawfully' beholden to? I would say no. The people being detained are not there for mutinous actions. They are there because they deliberately created a situation of threat in order to get what they want. Another matter entirely.

Well, no...you don't steal... [but he's still trying to imagine it anyway. hands...lessness. he turns the corner, distracted, staring at one hand while the other one keeps the tablet somewhat up and level.]

But, I mean, I guess if I try to think how it– [he stops, frowning at the tablet.] ...it was when I lived...in...

[he looks up, taking a second to be surprised.

oh.] Huh...!

[Koltira sets a steadying hand on Martin's shoulder.] And how was it? In your home? What was the law?

[He has a few suspicions.]

I can't say that I've ever had my hands cut off before
But it honestly doesn't seem like much of a deterrent
Especially with the technology they supposedly have here
I bet they had replacement hands in the armory
Or at least things that would do well enough

I guess my point is
You may as well hang the thieves, too

[at least most of that sounds somewhat familiar]

Public or private execution? Because that is an important detail you forgot.

[sadly, sarcasm over text doesn't travel well]

Hardly surprising that your ideas are fairly barbaric. I've no intent to return to chaos, and even less to return to a place where there it too much power given to those in charge, and it's easily abused.

[He shakes his head.]

I won't merely tell you that your ideas are lacking, however, as I do have a suggestion of my own:

It appears, to me, that missions and this...network...can be restricted. Perhaps limiting the access one might have to talk to people, or marking them in such as way that they are easily identified as someone who has committed a crime.

People can be sent back to both amend wrongs that they and others have caused, or even as a means of labor to repay what has been stolen. I think of the mission where we were sent to gather rocks, things of that nature. In extreme cases, one may be stranded in a timeline and left to fend for themselves for a while as punishment, with length depending on severity.

There's little reason to suggest death, when one might be brought back to easily. But being given time to think over actions is a different hell that is much harder to escape from.

[His ears droop a little toward the end there, and he looks fucking exhausted. But he said what he wanted, and that was good enough.]

[ It's somewhere around point number two that Apollo starts to laugh so hard that she's still laughing when she finally decides to respond to his post. ]

Pretty fuckin' extreme, ain'tya buttercup?

Is this your belief?

Alright... a separate matter... still, "creation of a situation of threat" or "endangerment" is not an offense you enumerate either. If you're suggesting the event that occurred is noncriminal in nature, then fine.

Which one are you accustomed to?

It was not an exhaustive list. What would you suggest?

[Well someone's a productive mood this morning. Mahdi sighs, moving hir thumb from hir mouth where ze'd been chewing thoughtfully to reply.]

These things aren't so black and white. There could be a reason to kill someone, like self-defense, or to steal something - like if that object was dangerous or harming them, or didn't belong to the first person in the first place, or it was something someone really needed badly that the person wouldn't share. And then what? We've gone ahead and done violence to someone that might be impossible to undo. We've murdered and stolen ourselves.

And that's before taking into account that someone could be falsely accused, even found guilty of a crime they didn't commit.

I can't agree with something that doesn't have room for compassion.

It's my belief that
Generally
For most people
Execution is an efficient and permanent solution to a problem.

But isn't that what some of us have been trying to do? Come up with a way to decide who should be in charge. Someone has to be. Assault? Execution seems a little extreme. It's wrong but isn't that kind of a lot? [ Not even batting an eye at these other suggestions though. ]

[She's familiar with this kind of code. It's the kind of code that condones whipping over a turkey. The kind of code that condones imprisonment over bread.

Flattest of the flat:]

That's justice?

[If so, she wants no part of it.]

[HE CAN'T DISAGREE. But.]

I suppose, then, it depends on what you define as a problem.

[Ugh, a living elf. He shrugs, not caring for this man's opinion much either way.]

So you call the idea of execution barbaric, but not the idea of leaving someone alone, disoriented, and likely defenseless for an unspecified period in an unfamiliar environment.

Interesting.

Edited 2013-12-01 18:17 (UTC)

Well, my argument would have been that treason includes not only pro-United Earth conspiracy but also anti-Initiative conspiracy - and that unauthorized alteration of the Transporter's operation qualifies as the latter. So from there I would suggest execution or another harsh physical punishment for the ringleaders and community service for lower members of the conspiracy who can prove their only crime was affiliation, not orchestration or harm. Not missions, base maintenance work.

[he smiles, ducking his head a moment, sheepish, as he turns the tablet off. no need for stereo.]

Mmh, so...If it's stealing... [he looks up, squinting while he thinks.] I mean, I don't know if the adults did, but if you were little and you were caught, you had to go without whatever it was for a few days. Food or, or one of the blankets. [tilting his head a little.] You can't really get in trouble for taking someone's clothes...they all look the same.

My name is not 'buttercup'.

If the object did not belong to them in the first place, it is not theft. Obviously.

As to the rest, that was about what I expected from you.

This discussion is not about who should be in 'charge'. This is about what we should put into law.

What punishment would you suggest for bodily violations that do not result in death, and yet are still severely traumatic?

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

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